Chat session about Character Development |
- saved on Wed Oct 21 2009 13:33:53 GMT-0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) - You entered Character Development. Room topic is: NaNo Chat. elfmage7 joined the room. sgambill72 Hi Dawn! elfmage7: Hi Diane elfmage7: sgambill72 I'm still gathering some notes so I'm popping in and out. I didn't want you to feel ignored, lol. elfmage7: okay chocstop joined the room. elfmage7: hi choc chocstop: Hi chocstop: again chocstop: are we early? sgambill72 Hi choc elfmage7: just a tad chocstop: Hi kybudman joined the room. chocstop: better shoot that breeze elfmage7: hi kybud kybudman: HIYZ~~~~ :) chocstop: : elfmage7: chocstop: oops chocstop: dropped somethin' sgambill72 We have about five minutes before we're scheduled to start. Anyone bring any food? lol chocstop: stop it chocstop: I'm hungry elfmage7: candy kybudman slides a tray of freshly baked nano-cookies into the middle of the room sgambill72 Oh sweet! chocstop: nuff elfmage7: elfmage7: have a bag of halloween candy chocstop: gott a shopful kybudman: that's my kinda shop! chocstop: fancy chinese chocstop: Thai? kybudman: the semi of nano-coffee beans is expected this week at my house fantasywrider joined the room. elfmage7: mmm coffee elfmage7: hi fantasyw fantasywrider: Hey Mr. Bud! I just learned this am you're back-welcome! fantasywrider: Hi Elfmage, hi all sgambill72 Hi fantasy kybudman: Hiya!! :) chocstop: hi fantasy fantasywrider: Hey everybody belinda_mo joined the room. sgambill72 I need to stock up on diet coke for NaNo. belinda_mo: hi elfmage7: hi belinda sgambill72 Hi Belinda belinda_mo: just passing through right now fantasywrider: Hey Belinda chocstop: Hi kybudman: Diet Cherry and Zero for me. fantasywrider: coffee, and second Mr. Bud's suggestions-- chocstop: 79% proof for me chocstop: 70 kybudman: LOL If there's any pain ta feel, ya won't choc sgambill72 We'll give the others a couple minutes before we start. Most are online. elfmage7: okay fantasywrider: LOL, I've been into the lobby once or twice an hour ago just to make sure I wouldn't have browser problems-acting like a high school kid on Prom night here:) belinda_mo: wow. I made it. What a pleasure to be here. sgambill72 Welcome belinda belinda_mo: ty kybudman: ~~Hi, ,Belinda! belinda_mo: I keep thinking, what have I done? elfmage7: nice sgambill72 I don't ever use chat on WDC, but this seemed like a great way to do some NaNo prep so I'm giving it a go! fantasywrider: anything for NANO is my motto :*) elfmage7: i used it when there was a lull in scroll elfmage7: now am in chat often elfmage7: met my boyfriend in chat kybudman: test, test, tasting 3.2 sgambill72 lol you ok bud? fantasywrider: whoa, wtg elfmage lol belinda_mo: I am not much on the chat experience but this sounded like a great time kybudman: I used to chat a lot. I made a lot of friends here. belinda_mo: My characters need help. fantasywrider: and then you got lost Mr. Bud lol kybudman: you got characters? sgambill72 Ok, lets get started and others can join in on the conversation if they come in. belinda_mo: ROTF belinda_mo: ok elfmage7: characters can be unwieldy kybudman: bossy too, I find sgambill72 I hope everyone has an idea of who their characters are for their Nano! fantasywrider: sometimes have a mind of their own, not the author's mind belinda_mo: Let's say ballpark concept is sound. elfmage7: somewhat chocstop: of course elfmage7: this novel is one for my mother, her story idea chocstop: lol elfmage7: i'm just doing the writing kybudman: cant see my antag yet, but all the other base characters are in place belinda_mo: This one has been trying to solidify for some time. fantasywrider: I do-i'm doing a sequel to the 2007 NANO project, so same main protagonist sgambill72 Great! I start off using a character sketch template to get some basics down about the main characters. How do you start? belinda_mo: I don't have a template but I have a notebook of character names, ages, professionss fantasywrider: that is something I think I need to start doing..I tend to just jump in the water feet first and let the characters build themselves up elfmage7: brandiwyn's nanowrimo plus challenge belinda_mo: not much more elfmage7: have to do character sketches and background stories sgambill72 I have some links to character sketches on WDC. I use them as a guideline, filling it out as I go. sgambill72 "Invalid Item" by A Guest Visitor "Creating Detailed Characters!" by Tehuti, Lord Of The Eight "Invalid Item" by A Guest Visitor kybudman: I interview 'em. Ask 'em 15 questions. Build their traits around the answers and fill in the plot from that POV for them. elfmage7: those are helpful belinda_mo: I'd like to try that and see if it prevents the midsection lag. elfmage7: i struggle with the interviews sgambill72 The interview is another great thing to do, bud. I do a job interview and also take them out on dates. It's amazing what they reveal when they're dating! fantasywrider: Thanks for the links! I have one to add, haven't tried this but located it the other day. http://www.writersvillage.com/character/index.htm fantasywrider: Mr. Bud, do you still do the Matrix with all your characters? sgambill72 Thanks, fantasy. I bookmarked it. elfmage7: i've done interviews for newspaper's but not fond of interviewing my characters kybudman: Yes, FW. That's the one sgambill72 It doesn't work for everyone, Dawn. Some of my characters should never be interviewed! elfmage7: lol elfmage7: true sgambill72 I interviewed a serial killer character once and couldn't sleep for days. elfmage7: interesting kybudman: Mine usually require a Parole Officer...*sigh* elfmage7: yeah. the clown that kills women and uses chemistry to make them into mannequins would not be one to interview sgambill72 lol kybudman looks stunned sgambill72 So how do you make sure your characters are appealing to readers? fantasywrider: that's one of my favorite types to read-I have one w-i-p which contains one but he's not the main character-yet elfmage7: i think the extra details, the flaws and quarks kybudman: If I can't figure out why a character acts in a certain way, I kill 'em elfmage7: interesting fantasywrider: agreed elfmage, that's what makes them believable sgambill72 You must go through a lot of characters, bud! kybudman: :) body buildin' is a wonderful thing! sgambill72 My characters are always quirky. I have to work to keep them believable though belinda_mo: me too bill72 elfmage7: some stereotypes happen, but also have the non-stereotypical along with it belinda_mo: My characters are very odd indeed. kybudman: Do you base their traits or style on real people elfmage7: helps with all my gay characters at least sgambill72 Most of mine are based on real people then evolve from there elfmage7: I've based off people I know, but the characters take off and don't resemble them after long sgambill72 Same here Dawn belinda_mo: I base their looks on real people and start with that. kybudman: If people I knew, knew...:) fantasywrider: I agree with that too, my main current protagonist has a lot of me but she is also much more than I am-way more spunky and feisty and probably smarter sgambill72 More the you that you wish you were? fantasywrider: yep, I wish I could be more as she is :*) elfmage7: I've got some of my mom in this nano's novel elfmage7: don't like writing about me elfmage7: ever chocstop: My main character is someone I aspire to be kybudman: Vicarious living can be a dangerous thing for my characters. sgambill72 bud, your characters are starting to scare me, lol belinda_mo: I will take odd tidbits of facts from my eclectic experiences. kybudman: It makes it hard to write consistency, for me anyway elfmage7: living vicariously is okay, just don't take it too far, borerlines mary sue attributes fantasywrider: I think being your characters might be a dangerous thing Mr. Bud lol sgambill72 My NaNo main character is a mix of my two sisters. It makes it easy since I know them well, but also places limitations on creativity until I break away from them and branch out. kybudman: sometimes, yus. LOL But, I need to really know my char's, and sometimes they have stuff I'd never have kybudman: that's usually when I run into trouble, esp with minor characters sgambill72 Do you develop your minor characters or just let them come as you write? belinda_mo: I let them flow. elfmage7: both. nano prep has days for minor characters sgambill72 Hmm, I haven't considered developing those characters. I may check that prep out, Dawn. kybudman: depends, but I usually have an idea of them. They carry clues, or motive, or opportunity in the mysteries usually. fantasywrider: there again, I need to learn to develop prep, mine are usually just come as they appear kybudman: EasyWriter helps with that some, but it isn't the "do-all" tool for me. It helps me remember to include or exclude things mostly elfmage7: well, i do the prep as it's a challenge. It is fun, but during nano i never look back at it elfmage7: I just write fantasywrider: who has time to look at anything else during NANO? :)) sgambill72 http://www22.writing.com/main/forums/item_id/1474311 this is the link for prep forum that elfmage is talking about in case anyone wants it chocstop: Once I've described the look of my character, some of their traits come naturally elfmage7: not me, certainly not this year. One regular nano and 2 side projects sgambill72 I won't look back at the prep once I start writing either. That's why I'm hoping to know the characters well prior to starting! fantasywrider: and no sleep for 30 days either elfmage7: very little at least kybudman: Thanks for that one. I was confused. elfmage7: sorry chocstop: is this as daunting as it sounds elfmage7: it's not too bad really elfmage7: i've done nano 3 times, succeeded once kybudman: exactly. I don't make time to develop during NaNo. That can lead to some exiciting times during edit chocstop: 1 for 3 then sgambill72 It's overwhelming, but in the end you have something written whether you make the nano goal or not elfmage7: eyp elfmage7: yep elfmage7: and very true, still writing the teen book i started in 2007 elfmage7: it's very promising sgambill72 Who is doing this for the first time? fantasywrider: I love NANO because it seems to be the one time I'm free from that pesky interfering Internal Editor sgambill72 Besides me lol chocstop: Is everyone here writing fantasy chocstop: this is my first kybudman: If I could get all the characters in line during prep, I could usually win NaNo. If not, it's a bowl o spaghetti elfmage7: nope. romance/chic lit (well, the regular nano story is) kybudman: #5 for me elfmage7: my two others are supernatural and fantasy sgambill72 My novel is science fiction kybudman: Mystery fantasywrider: not me, I'm writing yet another YA historical horror/Gothic/Supernatural/Paranormal Spiritualist-and this is my 4th year of NANO, 2006 only made it to 23K chocstop: Mine is the antithesis of Sci-Fi chocstop: and Fantasy elfmage7: sci-fi is fun mireyah joined the room. belinda_mo: Gothic elfmage7: ((mire)) mireyah: Sorry, I'm late! :( mireyah: ((dawny)) kybudman: I hope you all will be my friends on nanowrimo. FW, that's a niche!!:) chocstop: Sci-Fi is fun fantasywrider: hey Mireyah belinda_mo: or Gothic/Supernatural/fanfic maybe describes it better mireyah: hey wrider :) sgambill72 Welcome mireyah chocstop: But not on the endangered list mireyah: hello, diane mireyah: so how much did I miss? belinda_mo: not Supernatural as in the show by that name. LOL. elfmage7: character chat kybudman: I got into a lot of trouble last time. My characters told me stuff in the middle that I didn't know. I didn't know what to do about it for like 2 weeks! I don't think that's supposed to happen! sgambill72 We've talked about character sketches. I'll send everyone a link to the conversation after we finish mireyah: coolness belinda_mo: thank you! sgambill72 That's what I'm afraid of, bud. My characters tend to take over. I'm hoping more prep takes care of that issue... elfmage7: mine fight back, but sometimes i win kybudman: Well, even people we know surprise us sometimes. Flexibility rules! kybudman: :) sgambill72 True! elfmage7: as long as it doesn't ruin the entire plot of the novel sgambill72 And if they didn't surprise me at all they'd be boring and unappealing to a reader too fantasywrider: too true mireyah: ever had secondary characters take over the story? belinda_mo: Yes I have a work in progress where a murderer has come on scene and I don't write mysteries yet. kybudman: I keep my character outlines close--esp during NaNo belinda_mo: Yes, Mire chocstop: This is mt first novel chocstop: so no kybudman: usually write em in pencil sgambill72 Yes, Mireyah. That's what stalled my last two attempts at novels. elfmage7: not yet mireyah: my last novel-attempt was in 3rd person, and I spent more time focusing on the secondary characters than the main ones mireyah: drove me up the wall belinda_mo: those characters need sequels. elfmage7: interesting. mireyah: That's the thing! I had planned on it! The next book was about them! :)) elfmage7: some of my secondary characters are going to have their own books anyways belinda_mo: I will quickly outline them to get it down so I can put them back into focus on the story at hand. kybudman: When things get boring or bogged down, just have a character walk into the room with a gun, preferably smokin' :) sgambill72 I'm hoping to keep mine in control enough to write this story. Then if others want their own story I can work on it later mireyah: this is my first time using an outline...I tend to jump in headfirst fantasywrider: Me too (feet first, headfirst, etc) belinda_mo: You have an outline? THUD kybudman: Is that just for NaNo, or in general (jumpin' in, that is)? elfmage7: have to have an outline for nanoprep mireyah: mostly in general lol belinda_mo: I feel a little queezy. elfmage7: rarely outline for others fantasywrider: always jumpin in any writing mireyah: the outline isn't required, but I'm finding that it helps kybudman: I learned how to use an outline well for me, so they help me now. I used to be terrified of them. chocstop: this is scary mireyah: considering that you're going at breakneck speed during NaNo, the outline would help keep you from straying from the path you want rather than what pops into your head at that moment. At least that's my line of thinking :D kybudman: its an adventure fantasywrider: I read that book by Karen Wiesner, How to Write a First Draft in 30 Days-now THAT terrified me! chocstop: i need a diaper kybudman: LOL chocstop: lol sgambill72 Adventure is good! elfmage7: unless the stray makes it better mireyah: true...but that's what editing is for ;) kybudman passes a Pampers to Choc chocstop: cheers bud belinda_mo: I suck at editign . chocstop: lol sgambill72 Diapers.com delivers choc, lol belinda_mo: I'm a titan at typo's. kybudman: ROFL mireyah: I have trouble making myself edit.... chocstop: can tell elfmage7: i follow the advice from the podcast "I should be writing" The first draft is allowed to suck. It's harder to edit a blank page. kybudman: I speak typo...fluently mireyah: I keep wanting to write something new sgambill72 True dawn chocstop: Is this a contest mireyah: I've heard of that podcast, but I've never gotten around to listening to it elfmage7: you need to elfmage7: mur is awesome sgambill72 Leaving the editing behind is going to be my biggest challenge elfmage7: and she answered my question once, it was neat elfmage7: sgambill72 You have the link, Dawn? elfmage7: she hates editing too, but talks about it mireyah: oh yeah, Diane--is it just me, or do most writers tend to edit as they go? kybudman: mine too, cause I'm an editor in my heart. I get stuck editing while I'm writing. Bad plan. fantasywrider: especially bad plan during NANO elfmage7: i listen on itunes, but here: http://murverse.com/ or http://isbw.murlafferty.com/ kybudman: I've got a sign for NaNo that says "It's a DRAFT!" fantasywrider: thanks! belinda_mo: sometimes I can't move on for editing! elfmage7: nice kybud sgambill72 I think most of us edit. It's in our nature. That's why the timeframe for Nano helps. It forces us to leave editing for later mireyah: is it free, dawny? elfmage7: yeah elfmage7: it's free sgambill72 Thanks Dawn! mireyah: awesome elfmage7: and her podcast novels are free too mireyah: thankies! elfmage7: heaven and the sequels mireyah: ooooh, shinyness sgambill72 Is anyone having any specific character problems they'd like to discuss? We have about 20 minutes left. kybudman: theres http://www.nanoedmo.org and http://www.nanopubye.com for later (.com or .org) elfmage7: never tried those chocstop: separating characters kybudman: they've got good plans that don't kill ya chocstop: distinguishing traits belinda_mo: have you ever had a character you had trouble getting to "show" that you couldn't get emotionally involved with? elfmage7: not so far belinda_mo: IE: show not tell belinda_mo: thats been the most oft repeated phrase in my reviews belinda_mo: that and cut down my adjectives elfmage7: i struggle more with details and setting than the character elfmage7: try to cut down adverbs and certain words i use too often belinda_mo: not me. characters are a weak spot. mireyah: yeah, see same here, dawny. I have trouble with descriptions more than characters... elfmage7: people seem to like my characters *shrugs* sgambill72 Showing is easier if you use dialog, Belinda. kybudman: How do you deal with a character you just can't "understand", or get into? chocstop: I rely a little too heavily on dialogue fantasywrider: well you would kill him off wouldn't you? lol mireyah: is the character really important to the story? kybudman: thats tough for me. I need to like them, even the baddies elfmage7: well, i get into my characters in dreams some times kybudman: well, YEAH!! LOL fantasywrider: that always teaches 'em! sgambill72 I take them into a counseling session, Bud. I have to figure out how they work in order to like them as a character elfmage7: yeah, there has to be some interest in all characters for readers will get bored too belinda_mo: My dialog always sounds like English is my second language. kybudman: back story can help some, but I tend to use it as a crutch way too much mireyah: A friend of mine does "Group Therapy" where she gets all her characters together and she talks to them elfmage7: really belinda? belinda_mo: I have a story in my port that is almost all backstory. elfmage7: someone said my Blood Prophesy novel sounded like english wasn't my first language because it was too good kybudman: mine all showed up at a bus stop once. Had to wait on a ride til I got 'em figured out mireyah: according to a lot of people, backstory shouldn't be there until 50 pages in. mireyah: I find it really hard to believe that they can actually do that successfully fantasywrider: (oh oh) sgambill72 Backstory is a good prep tool, but I agree that you can't use it as a crutch belinda_mo: I'm finishing a contest entry and I took my characters out together for a girls night out at the VFW. I learned alot. sgambill72 That's a great way to get to know them, Belinda elfmage7: true sgambill72 Some of my best friends are my characters, lol kybudman: lock em in a room, a la "Twelve Angry Men"... mireyah: lol elfmage7: ooo, i like that story/play/etc kybudman: I love loving my chars belinda_mo: A lot of mine are "aspects" of myself as well. sgambill72 I have some I love to hate! belinda_mo: if your characte is going to surprise you would you rather it be early or late? kybudman: mine usually have a tic or something that makes them unique. Actually its a "tell" that reminds me who they are! LOL elfmage7: depends on the surprise mireyah: I've got a couple characters I don't even love to hate--I just hate them. Makes it hard to work with them! LOL kybudman: amen, mire belinda_mo: kybud, I find my characters are flawed uniquely. kybudman: but I read other authors' chars that I hate. They can bind me to a plot sgambill72 I have to find a redeeming quality in them, mireyah or I kill them off. kybudman: uht oh...2 guns in da room... kybudman: at least they can die well. mireyah: if they don't have a redeeming quality, then they have to be integral to the plot for me--otherwise...6 feet under they go elfmage7: yeah, have my high fantasy novel where the villain falls for one of the heroes, helps redeem his character kybudman: conflict to be overcome sgambill72 exactly kybudman: thats fun, esp with a minor char sgambill72 NOthing perks up a story like a little character assassination kybudman: "Christie-esque" I think mireyah: there are also those characters that are just there to die....I always feel sorry for them. :\ kybudman: soda speak! LOL elfmage7: i don't have too many of those yet kybudman: writing can be a bloody biz chocstop: like a star trek extra mireyah: there's a video on youtube about killing off characters--it's funny as heck kybudman: I've written chars that scared ME elfmage7: will face that in the story about an assassin i'm sure kybudman: you just gotta know, they gotta go! belinda_mo: not that into killing them off b ut they do each other in occassionally. kybudman: but at least I can understand them better mireyah: my killing scenes are really bloody. :\ mireyah: I never intend for them to be either! elfmage7: guess in blood prophesy there will be killing scenes sgambill72 Latent violence... noted, lol fantasywrider: Really? :D elfmage7: not so much in the romance story mireyah: lol it's that inner psycho killer emeging.... ]:) sgambill72 I don't always murder them. A lot die of disease or get hit by a car kybudman: I tend to leave a lot of open space in my chars for the reader to fill in. I can get too specific sometimes. belinda_mo: how many characters should you go for in a novel the NANO length? elfmage7: depends elfmage7: kybudman: As many as you need to get to the last word. No more, and no less. Thanks Uncle Jim! mireyah: whatever works for the storyline elfmage7: pov, number of main characters, etc have an affect sgambill72 I wouldn't do more than three main characters, but that's only because I can't keep them straight mireyah: I'm lazy, Diane--a disease means I have to research it whereas a nice old knife to the gut is simple. :D belinda_mo: I find the characters appear full blown and then I'm stuck with them sgambill72 lol mireyah elfmage7: for nano, the research happens later sgambill72 If they're necessary to the story, then you should keep them. Just don't let the characters get in the way of the actual tale mireyah: true...unless you plan 2 months in advance :P kybudman: did two weeks of research for 127 words about a char getting killed by an elevator once. I felt so cheated somehow. LOL sgambill72 I work in healthcare so a lot of my characters die of disease! sgambill72 lol bud mireyah: LOL doesn't that count as cheating? :P chocstop: Is that just a coincidence chocstop: ? belinda_mo: Write what you know, right? kybudman: i like chars that teach me something I didn't know before. I figure if I like it, the reader will. Dangerous ground, that. mireyah: true mireyah: me, I'm all for the kicking as much butt as possible, saving the world....and all that jazz ;) sgambill72 I'm lazy. I like to start with a basic knowledge, then branch out. I always end up learning more. My main character is schizophrenic in this novel so I'm researching that kybudman: I understand that. Me, too! chocstop: Both of them? chocstop: lol mireyah: wow--schizophrenic character. that's awesome kybudman: several for the price of one? sgambill72 we'll see if I can pull it off mireyah: kinda like writing about yourself...LOL belinda_mo: you all know of any type character you could NOT make the protagonist? fantasywrider: that's Dissociative kybudman: just the one you don't understand, I think. chocstop: a stranger mireyah: the kind who really has no conscience left. :\ There has to be something THERE for them to be the good guy belinda_mo: I agree kybudman: good point, mire fantasywrider: i don't have to like the character but I do have to find something of redeeming value in them, I think or I can't deal with them-same as in real life belinda_mo: so know your characters. mireyah: you can make just about any kind of character into a bad guy, because there's always that possibility, but there are some people who just don't have that thing that makes them good. kybudman: sometimes, an amoral prot can really grist up a story though sgambill72 Ok, I have to take off, but feel free to continue the conversation. I'm copying the chat session up to this point and will post it in my port. I'll send everyone a link in an email. Thanks for participating! |