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by Seuzz
Rated: 18+ · Message Forum · Fantasy · #2180090
Message forum for readers of the BoM/TWS interactive universe.
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Sep 9, 2020 at 10:39pm
#3368303
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ranking characters
by Nostrum
Well, I never imagined I'd see this discussion ever again.

For those who don't know: this discussion has run rampant in D&D forums. There's a spell in one of the editions called "Sanctify the Wicked", which essentially has the creature's soul trapped in a diamond for one year, and during that year, the creature gets confronted with its wickedness and given the chance to atone for its misdeeds. At the end of the year, the creature adopts the alignment of the caster and ends up as a "sanctified" creature, which means most of its evil powers are either altered or eliminated. (Did I mention that this spell is supposed to work even on purely Evil creatures such as demons?)

The consensus of most D&D players? Despite being on a supplement that's meant to represent the concept of Goodness, the general population of players considers it an Evil spell. Mostly, because (despite the creature being capable of resisting the spell) it infringes on the creature's free will. The argument is that the spell is akin to brainwashing, despite the spell clearly stating that it confronts the individual with its sins and gives it time to meditate upon the potential for goodness that they can have. It's also meant to be the opposite of an actual Evil spell, "Mindrape", which is self-explanatory.

When I saw the effect of the Banks in action, that bit came to mind. You get sequestered from existence, pretty much, and the only way to be released is to become a good person by force, rather than work your redemption through more mundane and specific actions (i.e., atonement, retribution). Personally, I'm not on the boat of the people that think "Sanctify the Wicked" is an evil spell because it robs the individual's free will, though I believe it should be a choice willingly made by the subject as a way to allow its innate evil to be purged away. If I were to disbelieve in the concept of the Banks, then by definition I should disregard the concept of rehabilitation, which involves...removing someone from society, finding out the reasons why they underwent crime, and then give them the tools to return them into society as functional, truly repentant people. In specific - if I were to accept the concept of the Banks as something evil and inhumane, I should also oppose to the very concept of police and justice.

That said - the methodology is a bit dark, and it fits the Stellae. They have the ultimate redemption method (of sorts), and while some undertake it willingly, others are forced to; and, while some do escape, some never do. Being forced into becoming good (even if you're still yourself, speaking in terms of identity) or being unable to live your natural life is kind of a cruel punishment, and the only reason it can be considered "noble" is because the Stellae are a small organization that's willing to go for more traditional methods.

You want to see true horror? Imagine Fane getting ahold of the Banks, and retooling it to work for them.
MESSAGE THREAD
Ranking characters · 09-09-20 2:21pm
by Masktrix
Re: Ranking characters · 09-09-20 2:33pm
by imaj
Re: Re: Ranking characters · 09-09-20 2:34pm
by Masktrix
Re: Re: Re: Ranking characters · 09-09-20 3:00pm
by imaj
Re: Re: Re: Re: Ranking characters · 11-22-20 1:47am
by ThePrussian
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ranking characters · 11-22-20 1:26pm
by rugal b.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ranking characters · 11-22-20 1:54pm
by Seuzz
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ranking characters · 11-22-20 2:04pm
by ThePrussian
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ranking characters · 11-22-20 2:33pm
by rugal b.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ranking characters · 11-23-20 3:30am
by Masktrix
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ranking characters · 11-23-20 2:10pm
by imaj
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ranking characters · 11-25-20 11:08am
by lexos02
Re: Ranking characters · 09-09-20 3:02pm
by A Non-Existent User
Re: Ranking characters · 09-09-20 3:02pm
by rugal b.
Re: Re: Ranking characters · 09-09-20 3:19pm
by rugal b.
Re: Ranking characters · 09-09-20 3:21pm
by Nostrum
Re: Re: Ranking characters · 09-09-20 3:39pm
by Masktrix
Re: Re: Re: Ranking characters · 09-09-20 4:37pm
by rugal b.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Ranking characters · 09-09-20 4:42pm
by Masktrix
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ranking characters · 09-09-20 8:19pm
by Seuzz
Re: Re: Ranking characters · 09-09-20 3:41pm
by A Non-Existent User
Re: Re: Re: Ranking characters · 09-09-20 3:43pm
by Masktrix
Re: Re: Re: Ranking characters · 09-09-20 4:00pm
by imaj
Re: Re: Re: Re: Ranking characters · 09-09-20 4:20pm
by A Non-Existent User
*Star* Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ranking characters · 09-09-20 10:39pm
by Nostrum
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ranking characters · 09-09-20 11:39pm
by A Non-Existent User
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ranking characters · 09-10-20 12:05am
by Nostrum
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ranking characters · 09-10-20 12:13am
by A Non-Existent User
Re: Re: Re: Re: Ranking characters · 09-10-20 12:17am
by A Non-Existent User
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ranking characters · 09-10-20 12:39am
by Nostrum
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ranking characters · 09-10-20 12:47am
by A Non-Existent User
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ranking characters · 09-13-20 12:06am
by Nostrum
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ranking characters · 09-13-20 12:20am
by A Non-Existent User
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ranking characters · 09-13-20 1:09am
by Nostrum
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ranking characters · 09-10-20 12:52am
by rugal b.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ranking characters · 09-10-20 1:01am
by A Non-Existent User
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ranking characters · 09-10-20 1:21am
by rugal b.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ranking characters · 09-10-20 1:26am
by A Non-Existent User
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ranking characters · 09-10-20 1:31am
by rugal b.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ranking chara... · 09-10-20 1:37am
by A Non-Existent User
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ranking c... · 09-10-20 1:48am
by rugal b.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ranki... · 09-10-20 2:01am
by A Non-Existent User
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R... · 09-10-20 7:12am
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R... · 09-10-20 1:13pm
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R... · 09-10-20 1:22pm
by Seuzz
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R... · 09-10-20 1:39pm
by imaj
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R... · 09-12-20 7:52am
by Seuzz
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R... · 09-12-20 7:52am
by Seuzz
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R... · 09-12-20 11:03am
by imaj
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R... · 09-12-20 11:26am
by Seuzz
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R... · 09-12-20 11:33am
by rugal b.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R... · 09-12-20 6:33pm
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R... · 09-12-20 6:50pm
by Kenny
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R... · 09-12-20 7:00pm
by A Non-Existent User
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R... · 09-13-20 3:58am
by imaj
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R... · 09-13-20 4:38am
by Masktrix
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R... · 09-13-20 5:30pm
by rugal b.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R... · 09-13-20 6:07pm
by Seuzz
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R... · 09-13-20 6:44pm
by Nostrum
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R... · 09-13-20 7:07pm
by A Non-Existent User
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R... · 09-13-20 8:01pm
by Seuzz
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R... · 09-14-20 11:20am
by imaj
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R... · 09-14-20 12:11pm
by Masktrix
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R... · 09-14-20 12:22pm
by Seuzz
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R... · 09-14-20 12:33pm
by imaj
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R... · 09-14-20 12:37pm
by Masktrix
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R... · 09-14-20 12:48pm
by Nostrum
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R... · 09-14-20 12:45pm
by A Non-Existent User
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R... · 09-14-20 12:48pm
by Seuzz
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R... · 09-14-20 1:02pm
by imaj
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R... · 09-14-20 1:07pm
by A Non-Existent User
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R... · 09-14-20 1:28pm
by imaj
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R... · 09-12-20 9:48pm
by A Non-Existent User
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ranking characters · 09-10-20 1:23am
by Masktrix
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ranking characters · 09-10-20 1:28am
by A Non-Existent User
Re: Ranking characters · 09-09-20 4:06pm
by Easy
Re: Ranking characters · 09-18-20 9:04am
by lexos02
Re: Re: Ranking characters · 09-29-20 5:51am
by lexos02
Re: Re: Re: Ranking characters · 09-29-20 8:29am
by Masktrix
Re: Re: Re: Re: Ranking characters · 09-29-20 11:27am
by Seuzz
Re: Re: Re: Ranking characters · 09-29-20 11:08am
by A Non-Existent User
Re: Re: Re: Ranking characters · 09-29-20 1:18pm
by imaj
Re: Re: Re: Re: Ranking characters · 09-29-20 2:02pm
by A Non-Existent User
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ranking characters · 09-29-20 4:24pm
by imaj
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ranking characters · 09-30-20 9:33am
by A Non-Existent User
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ranking characters · 10-01-20 7:44am
by Seuzz
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ranking characters · 10-01-20 3:06pm
by imaj
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ranking characters · 10-01-20 8:47pm
by Seuzz
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ranking characters · 10-02-20 12:42pm
by imaj
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ranking characters · 10-02-20 8:15pm
by lexos02
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ranking characters · 10-17-20 2:15pm
by A Non-Existent User
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ranking chara... · 10-17-20 6:25pm
by imaj
Re: Re: Re: Ranking characters · 09-29-20 10:06pm
by rugal b.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Ranking characters · 09-29-20 10:55pm
by A Non-Existent User
Re: Re: Re: Ranking characters · 09-30-20 3:46am
by Nostrum

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